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| El Hamawi: A Religious Leader must be part of the solution, not part of the problem |
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He also believes that religious scholars should lead in face of societal issues, where the burden usually falls onto their shoulders, and all members of the society will hold them accountable in case they did nothing about it or took a negative stand. He emphasized such prospective by saying “When a religious leader gets the right piece of evidence-backed information, the change will immediately begin, as if it is a train on a railroad heading in the right direction”. El Hamawi indeed got on board of the HIV response train in the Arab States since its commencement in 2004. He is not only a well-versed speaker, and a scholarly lecturer who trained big numbers of Imams and religious leaders about HIV in Syria and elsewhere in the Arab States, but he is also a member of the steering committee of CHAHAMA network; a faith based organization dedicated to HIV response in the Arab States. As a Religious Leader, when did you show interest in HIV response in Syria and the Arab World? And what was the motive behind this interest at a time when most Imams and religious leaders feared even talking about it? I lived in Switzerland in 1987, and I heard about AIDS over there. Back then, I thought it is a European disease and won’t cross the borders, until I was exposed to a set of facts that confirmed that this disease is not specific to any geographic location, on the contrary it can spread all across the world. At first, my knowladge about HIV was basic and not sufficient until 2004. In 2004 I participated in “Damascus Preliminary Declaration” in response to HIV which was organized by HARPAS. Since then I engaged for the 1st time in this field. PLWH in many Arab States face stigma and discrimination, and many see that the religious discourse in these countries might be a major contributor to people’s negative behavior against PLWH, how far do you agree or disagree with that? No doubt, this is largely correct, and the reason behind this is that many Imams receive their education in Islamic schools that graduate both preachers and “judges”. A preacher will possess a character of a judge who always tries to prescribe religious rulings, and make distinctions between the lawful and the unlawful. On the other hand, a correct Islamic attitude for a student in such schools should be different; he should be a healer, a preacher and must show mercy. He must try to warn people from falling, to help them out, and pardon them if they fell. So now we have two scenarios: Before the fall, and after the fall. A preacher should warn people against sinning, but he has to be gentle and kind, thus people willingly won’t sin not because it’s imposed. But people do sin and fall , so the preacher must not focus on the reason, more than getting the sinners back on track and into life, production and work . Stigma and discrimination are totally aliens to the nature of religion, but some preachers will misunderstand the cautioning Islamic rulings which show wrath, because the sole purpose of these rulings is to deter people from sinning, so it creates a barrier between a man and sin .Such deterring should not be directed to any one specifically, but should be communicated out to the entire society. In addition to that , we now see that HIV has spread everywhere, then we should notice that such discourse has no role to play anymore, and by that I mean ; such discourse was needed when HIV cases were rare , or perhaps at the very beginning of the epidemic as a tool of prevention.
Do we need a new religious discourse that stems of reality in a way that mixes the theoretical dimension with the social dimension? Allah almighty says in the Holy Quran:” We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the (tongue) of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them “. The meaning of “tongue” in this verse is not “language”, it is culture. A scholar or an Imam must understand this culture with all it represents; he must be that expert who can dive into the depth of such “status quo” that the culture creates. He must distinguish between a young man, and an old man, and between those who were brought up in a religious environment, and those who lived in a more liberal environment. He must recognize that there is media openness, Information technology, and less available religious resources. An Imam must connect the dots to give the correct answer, this does not relate to HIV alone, but to everything else like poverty for example. There are many social complications, for instance more people are getting married at older age, and many other issues. But we do have examples in the lives of our forefathers, for instance Omar Ibn El Khattab stopped the enforcing of some tax law in spite of the fact it was stated in the Quran. In the year of starvation, Omar did not cut thieves hands. Time has its rules, and mercy must prevail over rigid rules. You have worked as a lecturer with HIV-oriented agencies for a long time, and you helped in raising awareness about HIV in the Arab world. How do you evaluate the response form Imams and religious leaders in this regard? We have some kind of categorization of scholars in general based mainly on their age group. People who are older the 60, are more into kind and easy going attitude, but our role comes into play with the 2nd and 3rd groups, where Imams’ ages range between 40 and 60 , then from 25 to 40. We work with these two groups after graduation through training , but the last group (Students of Islamic schools) need our involvement during school time , whether its high school or college . There is no doubt that Imams over 60 years old might have rigid opinions at 1st, and the reason is that they look at the purity of the society, and they can’t imagine that the society have changed so much, but once you brought them to reality, to prove that time had changed and new risks are endangering the society, and if we don’t act now things might get worse, they respond more positively in most cases. In our workshops we find more resistance form the 2nd and 3rd group, who can be called the executioners, and people of experience who work on the streets especially on the 1st day of the workshop. I have seen this happening all over the Arab world, from Morocco to Bahrain, and down in Djibouti. But once they have listened to a life testimony of a person living with HIV, things change 180 degrees, as they begin to compete on how they can serve PLWH, help them, and perhaps change their discourse entirely to be more kind. Some even would say:” we blame ourselves for not being available when you needed us, so that you found your selves in such situation “. This is regarding the workshops, on the other hand, academically I believed, and I still do that HIV can’t be the focus of one speech or ceremony, because people are not used to listen to such type of speeches. But part of my understanding and my method of teaching , is that when I am on the podium ,I would do my best to recall an example of the suffering of PLWH and link it to mercy, giving, human values, love , and human unity , but then this works as an entry point to HIV, because my students and the faithful who attend my ceremonies will ask me about it , then I will give them my clear answer which is that a person living with HIV is a human being who has the right to life, respect , and access of treatment. I will emphasize that he/she must not be expelled from his house, or work, and if he/she faces a challenge, then we must support him/her, and take care of their families. We should not ever mistreat them or their spouses, or their families. So, our work with Imams from the 4 groups I just explained must begin with an ice breaking meeting with the first group, and we must be patient with them, let us not forget that they live in an idealistic world in their minds. We should work with the 2nd and 3rd group through training and workshops, and the 4th group which is not less important than any group must be worked with as well because they will be the future scholars and Imams, so if they were convinced of the cause, they will not only contribute easily to it, but they will also be open to accept similar causes throughout their practical lives. In your opinion, is it different from one country to another? What are the courtiers that achieved some progress in the training of Scholars and Imams to deal with such life challenges?
In your opinion, what are the basic characters that an Imam should posses in this era? Does the ideological school that he belongs to, or the group that he is a member of has influence on his response to such societal and social issues? There are two points here , the 1st point : A scholar is born among scholars , not out of books’ text , so all books – except the Quran – are dead , and the scholar should blow life into it , because he reconnects the text with the time and space , this is why scholarly schools of thoughts differ , as some of them do graduate real “ doctors” who can work and give , but some need refining of the understanding of the laws , but they are totally unrelated to these laws. The 2nd point is that a knowladge seeker must be part of the solution, not part of the problem. What do you mean by that? There are four groups that hide behind religious leaders, and always say they can’t do anything because they fear religious leaders’ reactions. These groups are: legislatures, politicians, health experts, and media community members. So we – as religious leaders- do have the leadership, so we should not be part of the problem. I am not exaggerating – unlike what people think – when I say that we do help legislatures when we teach them mercy that exists in religions, and how they can capture some of it into laws that benefit PLWH. This applies to politicians as well. Prophet Muhammad gave us examples, and the Quran commanded us to include all members of the society. We also tell health partners and media people that PLWH have rights , so we can’t let them down , or mistreat them , or distort their image . This is why I think that the impact of the religious leaders on these four groups are great, so if the religious leader plays a positive role, he will contribute to this social network, but if he does not do that, or did not engage at all, he will regrettably give these groups the chance to hide behind him again and take no responsibility at all.
You mentioned that creating NGOs for PLWH is quite possible, but we hear some scholars say that such work means propagation of sin, or admission of immorality. What is your take on that? I will base my answer off two points; First: Perhaps creating a NGO for PLWH might deepen the stigma and discrimination against them especially if there are only a few of them, it’s better for them to blend in the society, of course I am not generalizing, but on the other hand if there are too many of them, I would think a dedicated NGO for them can play various roles whether social, economic, cultural or religious. Second: I don’t believe that we promote immorality. We – as religious leaders – have a clear discourse:” Don’t approach fornication, it’s a great sin”. Nobody can bypass that, except for those who want to ignore the scripture. But I have a reality, as I mentioned before, a scholar must act wisely. There are surrounding conditions that lure people into sinning, but a scholar should not give up on those people, knowing that he is not promoting immorality. It’s not acceptable to turn down those who desire unlawful sex, but abstain from it. So an Imam should support them in their quest for repentance. A car can’t go without fuel, so we need to support their faith even when they fall, even if they are doing that and still coming to the mosque, I should extend a helping hand, and assist them to conquer their desires. There is a known rule for the doctors; I am a friend of the sick person and an enemy of the sickness, so now we become two against one. When a man sins , I should not give the devil a chance to control him more , on the contrary I should help him heal , and tell him that the gate of repentance are wide open, and those who repent are born again as if they never sinned. As a religious leader, how was your beginning? What are the challenges you faced while playing such a crucial role with such impact on Arabs’ social lives? Well, the beginnig was at 2004. But I heard about AIDS in 1987 when I was in Geneva doing my masters, and I was also lecturing at the Islamic Center over there, I never expected that this virus will infect everybody especially if the person is religious, so when I was told about the workshops in 2004, I loved to attend them passionately, and I acquired correct knowledge about the disease and methods of transmission, so I can deal with such topic very professionally. I remember I was one of the first people who did shake hands with PLWH in 2004 in Damascus. I wanted to express my acceptance of a person living with HIV, I knew then that shacking hand does not transmit the virus. The trainer asked me to hug him as well, and I did. The issue then became a matter of mercy and love for my fellow human being. When I realized that I have changed for the better , I decided that I should be a trainer and train others , and this is what I have been doing now , so I am working with HARPAS for the past 4 years , and I have trained many religious leaders in all Arab States. But what were the challenges back then? What are the challenges that you came across in the society as a religious leader? It was unlikely for an Imam to positively respond to HIV, maybe you had the knowledge about AIDS when you were in Europe, and you were aware of the misconceptions about it, but most Imams were not the same as you, so didn’t you fear a negative reaction from the society against you?
Locally , I have not seen much obstacles, on the contrary , I always stood out among my colleagues and my followers whom I am honored to serve, as the open-minded Sheikh . When a man imagines his son infected with HIV, he will be filled with love and mercy like nothing else. At my work with the ministry of religious affairs, there were no obstacles either; I was referred to as the one Imam who can train and help on such topic. Some of my colleagues approach me when they think they don’t have enough information on HIV, but once they acquired the information, they envied me for such knowledge and for incorporating that into my religious background and discourse. I still believe that the main challenge comes from those in charge of National AIDS programmes in many Arab states who still don’t recognize the important role of religious leaders in HIV response. To what extent you find HIV related to other social issues in any Arab state? We live in complicated times , there are many social issues that lead to HIV infection; poverty and unemployment comes on top of that, and broken families comes in the lead . I still remember that conference when I spoke about family , and I mentioned that the word (Osra ; Arabic for family) comes from the root word (Sowar) which means ( bracelet ); so family is like a bracelet that is worn around a wrist or arm, it engulfs its members and protect them, when I finished my lecture , a women living with HIV came up to me and said she approved of what I said , she said :” You are right Sheikh Alaa , if I had a family I would not have been in this situation now “. There is no doubt, that there are many things that can lead to HIV infection; like the case with correct understanding that the institution of marriage lacks. I don’t call for fewer dowries as much as I am calling for the validity of its concept, and I don’t call for early marriage as much as I call for more education about marriage for young men and women who are ready for marriage. I am not calling upon the society to lower the expenses of marriage as much as I am calling upon the society to become that alternative family for new married couples. I can recall a small project we did in our mosque “Saladin mosque”; where we introduce the (want- to –get- married) couples to other couples who are married for ten years or more. The guy will give his phone number to the groom, and the wife will do the same with the bride, so this older family becomes the foster family for this new couple. We have announced in our mosque that those who have been married for 10 years and more and think they have successful marriage, must thank God by sharing their experience with new couples, and I must say it was a wonderful experience, because many couples can’t ask their parents for advice, but they can easily refer to older married couples for guidance. Some new marriages can fail for one reason or another, but when married couples seek counceling with the people of experience, they improve their relationship. How successful was this project? Praise is to Allah, the examples are wonderful so far; the experienced families are giving with love, and appreciate it because they thank God by doing so and new-made families are getting stronger and have more confidence because they have someone they can depend on. You are one of CHAHAMA’s activists; how much did you benefit from this network’s training programs, and capacity building workshops for religious leaders to respond to the society’s challenges? What is – in your opinion- the role that this network should play in the upcoming phase? I would like to give you an example of a man travels to a foreign country but he does not understand their local language, so he is like a mute person, because being in a place where you can’t speak its language makes you mute, and I don’t mean the language of the tongue which we learn in schools, but in fact I mean the language of treatment. I am grateful to Allah and the ones in charge of CHAHAMA’s programs which taught us a lot. It gave us the keys to communicate with people, so this is how we began. We tried to complement the rest on our own. It was so hard for me to be in a situation where a young man complains to you about his situation, and all you can do for him is that you pray for him. He needed more than my prayers , he wanted me to sense his feelings , to understand his circumstances and how he got himself into what he is at now , to extend a helping hand to him , to not look down on him , to respect him , and to make him feel that he is loved and belonged . We were trained on some exercises; a variety of them like the soul profile, Wilber frame, and Lickert analytical system. All these trainings made us better and improved our personalities that were thriving for knowledge, so we learned the skill of outreach. We became like experienced doctors, who can look at his patient and diagnose 70% of his illness by just looking at him, and then he does his medical checkups. This is how we benefited from these exercises which largely impacted me in many ways; my religious discourse, my life itself and the way I treat people, and more important; it impacted my way of influencing my students, because I am the dean of an Islamic school; I impacted the curriculum I teach to my students especially masters than involves methods of preaching. But what is the role that CHAHAMA network should play after 7 years of its work?
1. Reward , and I don’t only mean monetary reward , I mean that spreading all this act of goodness that has been contributed by many of those religious leaders like the situation in Morocco, where they were successful in training most of the Imams , this in itself is a reward . 2. Follow up; and this requires concrete follow up with the works of the network on national level. 3. Sustainability; follow up is not enough, but we have to expand our focus, so we go from HIV to intravenous drug use, and so on. 4. Accountability Do you mean that CHAHAMA should go to another level? No doubt, if you don’t grow, you die, there must be development, socially and religiously like the Fatwas’ guide that we issued, and we were able to collect throughout our visit to South Africa in 2007 to attend the conference of “Islam and AIDS”. CHAHAMA’s members played a very important role over there, the fatwas were not only theoretical, but was realistic and practical. I was highly proud when I was invited to a special session on an Arab Parliamentarians’ meeting in Damascus; they were shocked to see a Muslim Imam and a Christian priest who spoke of such issues. I can say they were totally transformed. The situation of Arab women now in most countries might create a suitable environment for HIV spread, given the spread out poverty, and the lack of rights which were granted by heavenly religions particularly Islam. What is your comment on that? And how can a safe environment be created for Arab Women to get the right protection from getting into cruel life situations which usually make them more vulnerable to HIV? Women are practically the vital pivot of life in all societies, they as mothers create culture and receive it as wives and daughters, but on the ground we find that many women are deprived of their basic rights, I don’t want to speak theoretically, but I would like to draw some examples from Islam and the traditions of the prophet peace be upon him. We now face a cruel reality filled with many kinds of injustices some times because of the misunderstanding of religions, and sometimes from traditions that clearly contradict the scripture. Sometimes women themselves play that role by getting used to such conditions and becoming helpless, because they are so weak. Of course I don’t expect women to scream out loud, and if they did, then it’s too late to treat any thing. I believe in “Voluntarily commitment” that comes from within. I personally believe that the entire religion is built on voluntarily commitment, there is no compulsion in religion, you can hear the call for prayers, but you don’t pray, you can eat during the fasting of Ramadan, you are the one who decides to commit, and no one should oblige you. Let me go back to woman’s nature, she has an effective part to play, and I am pleased to say that two third of women in the Arab world, not only Syria who receive religious education are women, because they are house wives, so I am proud that we provide them with education so they can play their important role in their households, and become teachers and mentors of others in the society. Prophet Muhammad Says :” Women are the sisters of men “ , so this is why we use family terms , we don’t only talk about the role of women and men separately , the family makes that comprehensive formula ;a cooperative entity that allows healthy children to grow with harmonious parents , where a man has an important role , and a woman has her role as well , no one is privileged , both have their roles , and this is how we make a healthy family that creates healthy children in the society. Women today need more self confidence, so they can balance between her wellbeing and her duties, so she is confident; as she can do her duties and practice her rights. On the other hand we must address the entire society including grandparents, grandchildren, brothers, sisters, everybody, and tell them to put things where it belongs, to tell them that women are human beings and honored by God, she is the mother who I love and respect, she is my wife who I dignify and love, she is my daughter, and they must not be wronged. It is the role of the entire society to confront injustices against women, whether it comes from the misunderstanding of religion, or from unacceptable traditions. Lastly: The CHAHAMA network is composed of Muslim and Christian religious leaders, so how was it like to be in partnership with Christian religious leaders in Syria? What is the most important example of such cooperation? One of the important things I learned from CHAHAMA, and impacted me as a religious leaders , is the many interfaith and cooperation conferences that I attended, and many other symposiums on inter-cultural , inter-religious , and inter-sects dialogues . It led me to one undeniable conclusion which is the gathering of opponents, or others on a third issue can actually make hearts meet as well. So when we begin an Islamic Christian dialogue, there will be no true outcome other than the meeting of bodies, but frankly speaking, hearts won’t meet, and ideas won’t be refined except of course in specialized scholarly meetings that address facts and require neutrality. But when Sunni Muslims and Shiites , Muslims and Christians, religious and secularists , when they meet on another issue like fighting poverty , women rights, and youth employment you will find that competition will unite hearts , bridge gaps, and makes that one religious leader with another thriving to help one another , and this is what we exactly saw in HIV response. For example ; I was honored to join my brother father Elian; a priest from the Orthodox church in Damascus , and one of the best church servants , to participate in a HIV prevention program in high schools in and around Damascus . The invitation came from the Ministry of Education. What touched people more than talking about HIV was to be seen together, an Imam and a priest, people were not so surprised to see us together, as much as they were inspired by seeing us in harmony and love. Everybody saw a magnificent image , the Imam gives the microphone to the priest , and the priest does the same, and it was all done with complete sincerity, no fake performance what so ever . I would also add that this cooperation even affected high profile leaders from both faiths.
We have also appeared on several TV shows together, and we gave lectures together in mosques and churches, like Domer project in Damascus where Father Taher visited me in Kaftaro Islamic institution where I work. Even doctors were impressed by our unity against HIV. At the end of our conversation, would you like to ask you a question that I did not ask? Yes, my question is: What do you expect of the youth and the Arab society? In my own opinion, youth are the future, and I am so keen to learn their language, and I know they get underestimated some times. I remember Ali Ibn Abi Talib’s quote:” Don’t impose your principles on youth, they were not born in your time “. We must give them the proper attention, time and effort so they can play a better role with future generations. I call upon every man or women who carries a message of faith to carry it with love and passion, and remember that Allah sent us as messengers of mercy, to realize that if we don’t build heaven on Earth, we shall not find it in the hereafter, to be aware that God loves his creation, and bestows mercy upon them. This should be the link between God and people, so we all have to do that, not only scholars, or people with turbans. Everybody should begin from his household, in schools and universities, and the entire society must do this. Also read: Sheikh Hashim El Hakim: From Animosity and Fanaticism to Acceptance and Response. Father Elian Wahba: HARPAS work on HIV response, strengthened ties between Muslims and Christians |
“In my own opinion, a religious leader should be part of the solution. He/She must not ever be part of the problem “. This is how Dr. Alaa El Hamawi – The Dean of Al Imam El Awza’e Faculty for Islamic Studies, and the Imam of Saladin El Ayoubi Mosque in Syria- views the mission of any religious leader in response to HIV and the confrontation of this disease. He sees it as a societal issue; everybody has to be part of. A religious leader must be like a doctor; to be a friend of the patient, and an enemy of the disease.
But when HIV is prevalent, and we now know that stigma and discrimination will lead to silence which will eventually increase the spread of the disease, then we should refrain from this kind of discourse, and we use the other type which is helping PLWH, which will eventually help to protect those who are healthy.
Well, I call them religious leaders for many reasons, because they really lead and because they have the initiative to do things, in all Arab countries we meet with religious leaders (Muslims and Christians or others) who are leaders in the faith. They act out within the available resources they have. So if in some countries they are capable of creating NGOs for PLWH without getting stigmatized, then they will do that. If in other countries, they can get the medication to PLWH, they will do that, and the least they will do if nothing else is possible is that they will be propagate a kind and inclusive religious discourse that will call for love, mercy, and giving for every one regardless of who he is, including PLWH.
Not at all, on the contrary, what broke my heart back then is that doctors were not convinced that Imams can contribute to HIV response in both prevention, and treatment. I have always tried to reach out to PLWH so we can help them out, and help their families in case they have problems with their employers. Of course I am not generalizing, but many doctors looked down on PLWH although they are doctors, and doctors should not be doing this especially with the knowledge they have. I would like to add that Religious Scholars have a unique advantage which is positive interacting with issues once they received the correct information on the subject. I have been working on HIV for four years now, and I can support my point of view with hundreds of examples. When the correct, evidence- backed piece of information is available, the change begins immediately, like a train on a railroad heading to the right direction.
We have to enroll more religious leaders into this , and pass on that to future generations, as I spoke previously of the four groups of religious leaders, we now belong to the 2nd group, but we have to influence the 3rd and forth generations as I categorized before. In addition to that we have to begin new projects, and this requires four things:
I remember when I met the Pope, he said I know you from Father Elian, father Tony, and father Taher, they speak highly of you, and the Mufti said the same thing to them when he met them. We played an important role to create more opportunities for future cooperation, so we showed people a good example by speaking eloquently on HIV and being together in many events. People would say, if the matter was not that important, religious leaders would not have united themselves against it.